morgan888 wrote on Apr 29, 2008 7:15 PM:
" now you can get a decent cable for $5, i got one from inspiretech for around a year now and it has been a charm.
"
Damian wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:25 PM:
" Dan Frankel's post is correct. Your are still sending analog waves over cables. If you look on the line, the waves will appear to be square like but that's due to the adding of different harmonics waves to each other to produce that appearance. Dan also points out the better bandwidth concept, which is also correct. If you investigate the differences between types of networking cables, specifically CAT 5-6, you'll learn that the important difference is the quality of the copper used. That being said, there is not reason that HDMI cables should cost more than $25, because the amount of copper required to manufacture that length of cable isn't much.
I also saw the post by "Andrew wrote on Dec 31, 2007 9:57 AM" he is correct as well.
I think this post should be pulled due to its inaccurate and misleading information. If you want to argue that the difference between cables won't be noticeable, or that the current technology higher grade cables are not necessary... fine. However, posting false information is both counter productive to educating consumers as well as a poor reflection on your own lack of research and understanding. "
Harley Ross wrote on Jan 30, 2008 2:52 PM:
" Good explanation! I've told this same thing to dozens of people. But there are always a few who always believe that a higher price reflects a better product. These cable scams are not limited to HDMI. Look around and one can see the same thing in USB, video, and other cable products. "
Jason Bourne wrote on Jan 27, 2008 1:38 PM:
" Buy a well made cable to the 1.3 spec and it doesn't matter what you spend. More money doesn't translate to better performance.
I have found that you can tell people all you want, they will buy what they want. It's know as, mine is better than yours and I only use this brand. They buy hype and labels. "
allen wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:16 AM:
" ok, it is true that basically one hdmi will produse the same signal as any other hdmi...but i am in the h.t. sales and INSTALLATION industry. and the most expensive retail hdmi cables are cl3 rated which allows you to satisfy most state and national building codes to run these cables through wall cavities... while it is rediculous that i see these same cables in 3ft lengths they are necessary for the industry at this time...unless you can make your own. "
Albert wrote on Jan 26, 2008 1:58 PM:
" When Dan writes:
"Will you be using these cables to send multiple HDTV channels at once?"
He demonstrates his complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the issue.
Only one channel at a time Dan, only one!! "
Thomas Tew wrote on Jan 25, 2008 4:37 PM:
" You people are killing my commissions. Now stop educating the masses. I have 5 kids to feed and ripping of ignorant consumers goes a long way toward feeding my little ones. I used to make a killing on selling gold plated printer cables and now i make tons of money selling stupid people expensive HDMI cables. Now knock it off right now and take this website down. NOW!!! "
Dan Frankel wrote on Jan 25, 2008 3:51 PM:
" Actually the author shows a naive but not uncommon misunderstanding of digital signals. Yes digital signals represent ones and zeros which are processed by digital hardware (very much like computer software). But in saying this he ignores an important point about transmission lines, which are in fact what these cables really are. They are sending a signal, which is to be interpreted as a one or a zero. At first thought it seems that this is a one or zero, high or low, an analog wave that appears to look like a "square" wave, with sharp edges at the transitions between ones and zeros. But mathematicians will show you that with a finite bandwidth (a property of all cables) the edges get rounded. What is happening is that the high frequency components of the digital waveform are not passed. In the extreme case, the "square" wave looks more like a pure sine wave as its high frequency components get dropped. As we approach this limit, the receiving hardware will make more and more bit errors. Enough bit errors in a digital video signal will deliver the familiar glitching we've all seen when we have a dirty DVD or bad satellite TV connection.
So why do expensive cables help? Better cables have wider bandwidth. This means more of the higher frequency components of the digital signal can be passed than for the cheaper cable. Why does this matter if the spec of the cheaper cable is good enough? Because the better cables will be able to switch faster, and thus send more data bits in the same amount of time. Alternatively, its likely that the expensive cables will do better over longer cable runs than the cheaper ones.
So should you spend the cash for the more expensive cables? Will you be on the edge of the length of cable recommended for HDTV? Will you be using these cables to send multiple HDTV channels at once? If not, then perhaps the cheaper cables are fine. But don't think that because we pretend that digital signals are only high or low. In truth, digital signals are truly analog waveforms, we just treat them differently. "
Rob wrote on Jan 24, 2008 11:13 PM:
" If the HDMI cable meets the appropriate industry standard (which dictates the properties, electrical and mechanical the HDMI cable must have in order to sell as an HDMI cable) then one HDMI cable is as good as any other.
(I have seen cables in retail stores sell for as much as 300$. Must be a lot of rich people out there!) "
Mark wrote on Jan 24, 2008 5:33 PM:
" Dude - One Word = EBAY
Scored 3 HDMI cables there 6 bucks a piece "
Yeah, Sure wrote on Jan 22, 2008 8:00 AM:
" AMC, you can buy the Toshiba HD-A3 model for less than $150.00 right now, it's an excellent up-converter, one of the best on the market, AND it will play HD-DVDs as well as regular DVDs, so you get the best of both worlds. As someone who uses one regularly, I can say that while upconverted DVD looks good, HD-DVD looks undeniably better, like night and day. But, to get both in one machine, like the HD-A3 does, is a remarkable deal. AND, Toshiba is making it better right now by giving away 2 free movies in the box with the player, AND you can send a form in the mail and get 5 more through the mail for free! If you add up what the HD-DVDs would cost by themselves, you are getting the player for free! This makes the best deal on the planet for a fantastic up-converting dvd player! "
AMC wrote on Jan 21, 2008 5:32 PM:
" Contray to some of the comments this info is 100% true. I am in the Home Theater Bus and a digital signal is either on or off and the processing at the destination has error detection. So save yourself a lot of money and enjoy spending the extra $s on DVDs. A real gift from the industry right now is to buy a DVD player that up converts to HD or 1080i... your dvds will look superb for only a few extra $s. "
Albert wrote on Jan 18, 2008 9:58 AM:
" Wow - this guy Troy must be smoking some good stuff.
Perhaps he's so stoned that he thinks this is some sort of a true/false quiz. Anyway, it's pretty obvious that he is "Totally Unqualified" to post the nonsense that he has.
The foregoing article, though not "perfect" is quite well written and certainly offers no blatently incorrect or misleading information to the average consumer. The message is clear and correct - there is no need to spend $25 - $50 - $100 or more for HDMI hook-up cables. The 3', 6', and even 12' cables for $10 (or less) from many reputable suppliers are totally satisfactory and consumers should not be afraid to make use of them.
"
Troy - digital designer wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:08 PM:
" DVI is HDMI without the audio.
DVI is still standard on PCs and LCDs.
As for cables degrading, I have some from the 1980s that are starting to fail. Either (a) the rubber/plastic is deteriorating and turning sticky or (b) it's drying and cracking. You get what you pay for, which in this case, was "free" with my 1980s-era VCR, and RCA videorecord player (CED).
"
Troy - digital designer wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:05 AM:
" >>>"But with an HDMI cable, you aren't sending any oscillating analog waves, nor any power.">"The digital signal is either on or off, and it is impossible to distort it without ruining it.">"The great thing about a digital signal is that, even if there is a little noise in the cable (and there always is, no matter how good the cable), the TV will clean it up when it interprets the digital signal.">"The whole beauty of moving to a digital world is that it eliminates distortion completely.">"What this means to you is that there really is no such thing as a "better" HDMI cable. Either an HDMI cable works or it does not." "
Troy - digital designer wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:03 AM:
" [QUOTE=original_article]But with an HDMI cable, you aren't sending any oscillating analog waves, nor any power. [/quote]
False. And false.
[quote]The digital signal is either on or off, and it is impossible to distort it without ruining it. [/quote]
False. And false again.
[quote]The great thing about a digital signal is that, even if there is a little noise in the cable (and there always is, no matter how good the cable), the TV will clean it up when it interprets the digital signal. [/quote]
True, but only to a point. If the signal gets too distorted, and the TV finds itself looking at a 1.0 volt signal, how will it interpret that? Was it a 0 or a 1? Who knows?
[quote]The whole beauty of moving to a digital world is that it eliminates distortion completely.[/quote]
And introduces bit errors. Bit errors create false colors and/or bad pixels on the screen.
[quote]What this means to you is that there really is no such thing as a "better" HDMI cable. Either an HDMI cable works or it does not. [/quote]
Or.... it could operate on the margin, with numerous errors that are too small to break-up the picture, but large enough to create single-pixel errors. (Thus not giving you the true picture.)
"
Gary wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:27 PM:
" GREAT timing for me to read this as I am looking to buy a blu ray dvd player and it requires a HDMI cable sold seperately. Thanks for the info. "
monster employee wrote on Jan 13, 2008 3:40 AM:
" our high cost isn't only due to the the fact that the best quality cables are used, the best and most durable connectors, the most effective shielding but also for market positioning. As professional grade cable if you want piece of mind that you have the best money can buy. For longer distances (over 15ft) and as someone mentioned if you care frequently connecting and disconnecting then our cables are for you. Also if the connections are visable you might want to consider monster for aesthetics (why buy a Ferrari when a Ford will get you from A to B). Along with the lifetime guarantee these are the reasons our cables should be considered.
Having got that off my chest - if a retailer tells you expensive cables will improve your picture quality noticeably on your home set-up where you only need 5-10ft of cable then yes - they are scamming you. "
Engineer wrote on Jan 12, 2008 1:37 AM:
" Purdue BSEE
Agree with the post, you are buying into marketing if you are purchasing these high end cables.
I'd post screencaps from an oscilloscope to prove my point if I could. "
TheBuck wrote on Jan 11, 2008 7:05 PM:
" Bestbuy employee i really cant tell if you are joking or not becasue i have worked at many BB stores and they seem to think the samething as you (not all the people there) but it just is not true anyone who does any research what so ever will know this info on this page to be true. again i do not know if you are kidding or not, i do hope that you are. "
Yeah, Sure wrote on Jan 11, 2008 9:13 AM:
" To BestBuy employee: give it up. The FACT is, cable has to be up to a certain spec. (as already noted by someone else here) in order to be labeled HDMI. Performance on inexpensive HDMI cables are fine. Is Monster a better cable? As far as quality of insulation and connectors, probably, which is why as a dealer I sometimes use it in commercial installs or if I an running a very long cable run, OR if it's an instance where something is going to be constantly hooked up and then taken back down. Will a Monster cable make a difference in the typical home user's picture quality? No. Your typical home user runs somewhere between 3 and 10 feet, at which point the $10.00 HDMI cable works just as well as the $150.00. The argument about your profit margin on cables is a laughable one as well. As a dealer I can attest that you make a LOT more money on premium cables than you do on discount ones. The ONLY reason your company pushes you guys to sell a $120.00 Monster cable is that you make $60.00 minimum clear profit on it, and in some cases even more than that. You can make up for selling a piece of equipment at cost if you sell someone 2 or 3 cables and you make $60.00 more more profit on each. This is the real reason you all push the Monster stuff. Average Joe user does NOT need it. "
Charles Francis wrote on Jan 11, 2008 12:26 AM:
" Yes, I got taken in by this scam, and I knew better. An audio engineer friend had explained it to me but the salesman got me making a bunch of decisions all at once, (extended guarantee, sound enhancement, stand, etc.) and he managed to slip it by me. "
Electrical Engineer wrote on Jan 10, 2008 11:44 PM:
" Even it's digital signal, there's a thing call Bit Error Rate (BER). Signal with better quality usually has less BER, so it's not a poor cable will not work completely. It'll still work, but the throughput will hurt as the receiver may throw away packet that has bit error in it. "
Bestbuy employee wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:34 PM:
" the more expensive cable is the best cable on the market. It is proven time and time again in side by side comparisons. It costs more to make the higher grade cable so the profit for us is the same....but it is you, the consumer, that gets the savings that are passed on to you. It's all about quality and if you are willing to pay for it or if you just want to get by and not have a setup as good as every one elses! "
vsop30 wrote on Jan 10, 2008 1:28 PM:
" Everyone,
Do yourselves a favor and actually try a higher quality cable, with the specifications that match the best quality ouput of your HDTV and HD source. If you're only gonna watch regular DVD get a cheap standard cable. Because DVD is standard. If you're gonna watch Blu Ray or PS3 than you'd better get a high-speed HDMI cable because they are made for the higher data rate transmission.
You will blow yourself away with the difference. It's that simple. YOu don't have to go broke, but when it comes to cable, you get what you pay for. "
Yeah, Sure wrote on Jan 9, 2008 7:39 AM:
" Truthfully, with Warner's decision to go blu-ray exclusive, I would not buy an HD-DVD player at this point. Everyone seems to think that Blu-Ray has won the high definition disc format battle, so if I were buying a player today it would be a Blu-ray, and probably a Playstation 3, just so that if something were to happen to the Blu-Ray format down the road, you would at least have a game console that you could still use, or resell and get part of your money back. TOTAL sales of all high definition movie discs last year (both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD together) were less than 5% of all total DVD movie sales. That said, a lot of people were holding out to see if either format would come out on top. The Playstation 3 is a fantastic Blu_ray player, it's actually better than the majority of the stand-alone players on the market at this point, so that's what I would buy. But, to answer your question, Jpye, the biggest difference in the players is that some of the HD-DVD players output 1080i and some of them put out 1080p, whereas ALL the Blu-ray players can put out 1080p. If your tv only goes to 1080i then either one will look great, but if you have a huge screen that will go 1080p, you'll be a bit better off with the Blu-ray, which will output the full potential of your tv. There are a few audio codec differences in the machines as well, but all of them have good quality audio, so that's not really as much an issue. Go to Gamestop or EB games and pick up a refurb Playstation 3 with a warranty for a decent savings over what it would cost you new, and you'll have a fantastic Blu-ray player. "
sykes117 wrote on Jan 9, 2008 12:44 AM:
" All the different Blu Ray and HD DVD Players have different features. For example most of your cheaper ones can't process DTS-HD sound. Read all the available information about the different players you might buy to make sure it has all the features you need. If you don't have a receiver that can take advantage of DTS-HD sound then you don't need a player that has it. Also if you do have a receiver that processes (not just benefits from) DTS-HD sound then you don't need a player that processes it because your receiver will. DTS-HD and other High Definition Sound are still fairly new and not all Movies are taking full advantage of it. So just make sure you have everything that you want out of your player and that you are satisfied with the price. "
jpye wrote on Jan 8, 2008 12:11 PM:
" Does this mean that it does not matter how
much your blu ray/hd dvd player costs as its giving out a digital signal anyway?
Could save me to know... "
watcher wrote on Jan 6, 2008 7:54 AM:
" thanks for this articale and I totally agree with it. "
Did you know? wrote on Jan 4, 2008 8:28 PM:
" Did you know that you can get high def t.v. with rabbit ears? You can get all the locals, plus Fox, and more. I've got a 52" Samsung DLP t.v. I bought an RCA Antenna, the one that looks like an airplane propeller for 60.00. And I get all the prime time shows, Football on Sunday afternoons, NBA, and more in High def. I used to use a 5.00 pair of rabbit ears to pick it up. But the other one picks it up just a bit faster. But your T.V. must have a built in HD receiver to pick them up. "
Pork lover wrote on Jan 4, 2008 12:22 PM:
" I connect my HDTV to my blu-ray player with bacon. Yes, BACON! Just cram one end of a long strip of bacon into your TV and the other into the dvd player (usually a port labeled "bacon") and TA-DA! High def. over bacon! "
Shawn wrote on Jan 3, 2008 8:17 AM:
" For all the complainers that think they've had a "non-sharp" screen because of a low quality HDMI cable, I'd be interested to hear by which mechanism this loss of focus occurs.
With analog signals, its easy to explain; there is a voltage gradient over time due to line-load capacitance. This has a greater effect if there is a poor ground causing current to travel through the line causing an inductance effect (especially true next to speaker wires!).
In the digital world though, there is no known mechanism by which this can happen. Since the signal is sampled using a non-hazard determinant PLC (or similar hardware) there is no room for degradation. In a 5V digital line there is hysteresis about the 2.5V mark. To change from high to low the 5V signal must drop below 1V (for example) and for a low signal to go high the 0.3V signal must go above 4.3V (for example).
To induce a level of noise that is 90% of the carrying capacity of a cable is almost impossible. Since the HDMI cable does not carry current unless there is a bad ground connection in the receiving hardware the resulting interference cannot create a distortion larger than the electron doping in the cable itself (usually no more than 3% unless it is a transistor based in a silicon substrate, which cables are not).
Electricity is not magic, is has rules. "
Shawn wrote on Jan 3, 2008 8:09 AM:
" Hi! Electrical and Computer engineer here. The author is tremendously correct. The area where he could be wrong is the level of signal noise required to break up the picture. He is astoundingly and completely accurate in saying that an HDMI cable will work or it will not. It's true! Gold connectors will drive off corrosion, shielding will protect the digital signal from high levels of interference. But all things being equal, a $5 cable moves the EXACT same quantity and quality of data as a $150 cable.
FACT. "
Dega wrote on Jan 3, 2008 1:50 AM:
" Ok, I sell tvs at a circuit city and yes, we do have expensive cables(namely monster) and cheap ones. Most of the time I just take people straight to the cheap ones unless they ask specifically for monster. The only selling point I give for monster is that they are more durable and have a lifetime warranty(which they do). Buy them new on ebay for cheap like I do. Yes, believe it or not some of us salespeople have integrity. A lot of us don't even work on commission so don't group us altogether. It's kind of a pain for everyone when customers come in convinced that I am going to screw them over any way I can without even giving me a chance. "
shortbus wrote on Jan 2, 2008 6:16 PM:
" When I worked in computer retail we were told that cables are high margin items for the store, and to push them. It's not just HDMI...it's all cables, dongles and adapters.
You can find perfectly good HDMI cables on NewEgg for five bucks. "
The Cable Guy wrote on Jan 2, 2008 2:45 PM:
" Very good and informative article. Interesting comments: 50% right and 50% still ignorant.
This topic reminds me of the $35 USB printer cable from Circuit City which you could also buy at the Dollar Tree store for $1 + sales tax. Decisions... decisions... :D "
Cable Guy wrote on Jan 2, 2008 2:43 PM:
" Very good and informative article. Interesting comments: 50% right and 50% still ignorant.
This topic reminds me of the $35 USB printer cable from Circuit City which you could also buy at the Dollar Tree store for $1 + sales tax. Decisions... decisions... :D "
Jake wrote on Jan 2, 2008 9:38 AM:
" Monster Cables and other high priced cables are just for show. I bought an dvi to hdmi for my new Panny 1080p 56" lifi lcd rptv for $7 shipped on Amazon. They also have just hdmi to hdmi for like $5 shipped. Check them out. "
John wrote on Jan 2, 2008 8:49 AM:
" Carlman, Does your internet video experience improve with a better Network cable? As long as its not a bad connection and you aren't dropping packets there is no difference.
Its the exact same thing, its raw data transfer!
"
leek wrote on Jan 2, 2008 6:29 AM:
" Actually, DVI/HDMI does not have digital error correction, and is limited to a short cable length before the signals break up. Component video, OTOH, can go for miles if the cables and ends are impedance-matched: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html
"
fdsa wrote on Jan 1, 2008 11:39 PM:
" Eh, how about you give me some physics or go get an EE degree?
Just because it's not analogue doesn't mean it doesn't get effed up along the way. I've had multiple bad experiences with HDMI cables resulting in blue tinted screens, non-sharp images, etc. That's because you get bad connection at the tip, and data loss along the high resistance wire.
Glad you think you know what you're talking about enough to publish it... and lead many people astray.
Whoever comments saying that this article is "absolutely correct" and whatnot should really go learn some science. "
Jim wrote on Jan 1, 2008 11:02 PM:
" Thank you for posting this article. It's very hard explaining to utter retards the basic principles of electronics and physics. As you mentioned, a 0 is a 0 and 1 is a 1. When you get down to digital all that matters is that the signal gets there. It's really really really hard to mess up the interpretation between a 0 and 1 as far as how electric currents are sent along a copper medium.
Whoever says otherwise needs to go back to high-school and re-learn physics. It's unfortunate that most of the people pitching Monster cables and such are mouth breathing ingrates whose IQ are barely above that of a simple primate. It's ok though, don't bother to do actual concrete research with empirical evidence. Be a stupid fanboy and enjoy your lifetime underpaid "career" at your local electronics retailer. "
True! wrote on Jan 1, 2008 4:59 PM:
" I bought a 46" samsung LCD and a $55 HDMI cable at Fry's.
2 weeks later Fry's sold simple bagged HDMI cabled, 15 feet for $4 each!
I took my $55 cable back, bought 4 of the $4 cabled.
NOT A SINGLE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY!
I've always known of this, but fry's didn't have the HDMI cables available other than the spendy ones, and nothing online was that great either.
I have always laughed at people that bought Monster Cable products. Such a joke, no better than the copper cables at any local store. "
Steve wrote on Jan 1, 2008 10:42 AM:
" "They sell DVI to HDMI converters but will this improve my already excellent picture using composite cables?"
- YES! I install electronic goods for a living, and just about every day I see the difference between composite video and RGB when I'm setting up video equipment. We run scart connectors over here which carry both RGB and composite signals at the same time so its like an A/B comparison every time I change the option in the menu.
If I can see the difference between composite and RGB, then you should notice a difference between composite and component or DVI/HDMI, which are better again.
@Ota Thanks for that my info must be out of date. "
MarcoVincenzo wrote on Jan 1, 2008 6:06 AM:
" Just a heads up. If you pay $25 for an HDMI cable you've been taken. An HDMI 1.3 cable 3' long should be well under $10 and online retailers like Monoprice sell very good quality ones for under $5. "
Daniel Reeders wrote on Jan 1, 2008 3:15 AM:
" Goood article. Nice work! "
CJ wrote on Jan 1, 2008 3:06 AM:
" Also you might want to tie-wrap some of your cables together after you plug them in. In general, less expensive cables are more prone to taking damage when they are snagged, i.e, someone moves the TV or cable box to the limits of the cable length. At least some of the cost in the higher end cables goes to more rugged braided cables and end connectors that they have likely stress tested more aggressively in the design phase. So in a sense what you pay for then, is the knowledge that when you plug the thing in you can with great certainty rely on it to at least not be the cause of any problems.
"
meiliken wrote on Jan 1, 2008 2:29 AM:
" I'll actually put the argument to rest even though I know most jackasses will attempt to keep it going by spouting off what they "think" they know. The component cables are indeed the better of the cables to use for one reason only. They split up the color signal among several cables, so the signal is stronger, thereby making the color depth much more vivid. They don't say it's clearer than real life for nothing. But the HDMI cable is pretty close. It has a good signal strength, but if you want the best you can get out of HDTV, than you're better off with component. Now as with pricing, the cheapest you can get HDMI cables is $11.00, period. No matter what anyone claims, most stores will only sell them for $25-$50 and up. Highway robbery yes, but if you go to your local cable company, they'll sell them to you for only $11.00. Component cables have the least amount of signal loss than any other cable. I only know all this because I do this for a living. But you all are right about 1 thing. The pricing of the cable is irrelevant to the quality of the cable. They're all made the same way, period. "
Lawrence Tureaud wrote on Jan 1, 2008 2:11 AM:
" That's not true, you clearly get a better picture from buying a high-value HDMI cable than not buying one, just try this simple experiment:
CONTROL:
1. Check your TV picture quality.
2. Go to the store.
3. Don't buy a high-value HDMI cable.
4. Go home and check your TV picture quality.
5. Make note of the fact that it did not improve.
TEST:
1. Go to the store.
2. Buy a high-value HDMI cable.
3. Go home and connect your TV using the high-value cable.
4. Check TV picture quality.
5. See, it DID improve! "
giffo wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:51 PM:
" thank you for putting my mind at rest :)
I recently purchased a decent TV and DVD, no cable included of course, so i visited the local electronics store(in london) and they were $120 min, after laughing I walked out and purchased one on ebay from the usa for $12 :) "
Mike wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:37 PM:
" You are wrong.
Are you an EE? Your terminology seems to suggest you are an "enthusiast".
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
"
Zuli Kassim-Lakha wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:30 PM:
" I received this information just in time, I was going to purchase a HDTV tomorrow, New Years Day.
Thanks for saving me a bundle.
Zuli Kassim-Lakha "
Dobbs wrote on Dec 31, 2007 9:33 PM:
" Good article, but here come the audiophile lunatics who believe in craziness unmatched by all but the Church of Scientology to tell you how wrong you are, and that you need a $5,000 cable to get the most out of your setup.... "
juanchopancho wrote on Dec 31, 2007 9:26 PM:
" I bought my HDMI cable on amazon.com for $12 "
Carlman wrote on Dec 31, 2007 9:02 PM:
" Saying a cable doesn't make a difference because it is carrying a digital signal shows some ignorance. Your article assumes everyone is Joe Consumer that just walked into a big box store and bought a new flat screen monitor. Be sure to indicate your audience and that this is your opinion rather than spouting that all digital cables, connections, error corrections are absolute and perfect.... and that if anyone says otherwise, it's a scam. I would wager you're a no-name writer with a gripe given the way this article is written.
Some people can see and especially hear a difference with various types of digital cables. Do your own research and make up your own mind before believing anyone. I agree expensive cables aren't for everyone but not that they aren't for anyone.
-Carl "
Dana wrote on Dec 31, 2007 7:15 PM:
" HDMI is a standard that manufacturers must license from the "The HDMI Group." To be called a HDMI cable it must conform to the signal and physical standard specified by THG. Any HDMI cable (within it's revision standard, 1.0, 1.3, etc.) should perform at the necessary level to produce an error-free picture. This "bad" verses "good" (or "better" verses "best") marketing is absurd for HDMI cables. The only issues for the consumer should be length and possibly physical appearance if you're the esthetic type. "
Ota wrote on Dec 31, 2007 7:05 PM:
" @Steve 8 conductor UTP is certainly capable of 10Gbps data rates, it is called augmented Cat 6 (or Cat 6a). It is a bit thicker with a sturdier center spline and more twists per inch than regular Cat6 and even with user made end point termination it can send 10Gbps for 100 meters without shielding. That being said, a factory made 3 - 10 foot HDMI is no less capable.
@Everyone Digital video transfer protocols have build in error correction to compensate for when there is signal degradation so to the various forms or crosstalk. If the signal gets damaged the error correction in the reciever will auto correct unless it is so degraded that auto correction is not possible, in which case you will see very obvious graphical artifacts (flaws). The picture will never be just fuzzy.
If you see a demonstration of a high end cable vs low end cable that shows one being fuzzy you are being scammed. They are not showing HDMI v HDMI, they are showing HDMI v Composite video. "
Steve wrote on Dec 31, 2007 6:49 PM:
" I agree it is quite the scam, luckily I passed on the $100 Monster cables and purchased several from partsexpress for $6 to $15 depending on length. The profit margin for the Monster cables must be huge! "
MC wrote on Dec 31, 2007 6:04 PM:
" thanks for the tip. Its gonna be a few years before i get a hdtv but this is nice to know. "
guru of tech wrote on Dec 31, 2007 5:49 PM:
" you left out the 'good' part of the scam!
By using composite cables instead of HDMI, you also avoid the DRM that is invoked!
Yes, HDMI cables have losses, and are analog carriers of the digital signals, converted from/to digital! "
Alec wrote on Dec 31, 2007 5:48 PM:
" This is important information for consumers, however part of your statements are incorrect. There is a common misconception that information traveling over cables can either be "analog" or "digital". This isn't entirely true. Both analog and digital signal devices technically send information through cables in analog! The difference is the way in which the bits of information are encoded in the voltages traveling over the wire.
This isn't saying that HDMI doesn't provide a very nice picture, only that it's incorrect to say that the HDMI cable doesn't use analog.
"
L4nce wrote on Dec 31, 2007 5:47 PM:
" In response to zer0-Kill
It's cost +5%.. now monster I know for a fact is not going to be 5 dollars. The guys at monster Might, I mean just Might want to make a profit on their end. So yes, $5 on a Store Brand. Let me also point out the cost of the store products will be.. well as the store is the manufacturer, at least 80% of the time, the cost of materials and labor is that $5. However it does seem to be a bit much, but its business, live with it. Just imagine if Starbucks sold their coffee at the 10 cents it costs to make it. (That is the average cost cost) It's apparent that people rather have a cup of coffee rather then $7 and then its textbook supply and demand. (one could go into tangents such as oligopoly or a monopoly and a need for a price ceiling in this situation.. ) Last time I looked up the employee cost at my store, (I wont mention which..) of a $100 dollar monster it was around $60. Mark up is high on cables, course unlike a TV or a cellphone, a store has no way to make money on a cable, they don't get a kickback from Monster like they would from verizon for a "free" razr. Can one sell a cable with a warranty? No it already has a free one. Any home installs of a wire? I want to meet that guy =). So yes the cables have a larger then most mark up. Since most electronics, minus the store brand, are marked up to a total of 10%. If you say that's bull, then go work at a retail store, I know what I am saying as I do. However no one is going to make space for an item when it costs that store an opportunity cost of an item that can. Now the fact if monster has better pic quality. I would say yes, however would I say it's even 15% better? ...
and Bob, they are rare on TVs, and even PC GFX cards are coming with HDMI slots now. HDMI just has more use then DVI and I believe bandwidth. But it's nothing a conterter can't fix. "
George wrote on Dec 31, 2007 4:42 PM:
" i have to agree with a bit of this article HDMI cables run at a high price and a standard consumer is probably going to want a the cheaper wire. unfortunately there is a difference. the more expensive cables like the TCI copperhead provide slightly faster transfer rates. Plus cable length is a huge price effector. "
Miett wrote on Dec 31, 2007 4:07 PM:
" We got our last round of cables from Monoprice.com, which spoiled us to paying any more than a few dollars for a cable.
It also made for a nice stunned silence when we (politely) let a salesperson know that we already had the cable they were trying to upsell to us for $50, and that we'd gotten it for $7. Hehe... "
Skip wrote on Dec 31, 2007 4:06 PM:
" No the scam is listening to you telling people they NEED HDMI at all. Component video cables, those very same cables that nearly everyone already owns a set of, is capable of the EXACT same quality as HDMI with NO PURCHASE necessary. What people should be doing is suing the dog crap out of electronics companies that have disabled or crippled the component video outputs of their cable boxes, or dvd players or other devices in order to force HDMI down their throats.
There are large numbers of people completely oblivious to the fact component video is capable of the very same quality as HDMI over longer distances.
People like you are pathetic. "
HDMI wrote on Dec 31, 2007 2:43 PM:
" Homeinstaller is BS'ing you. once a cable is in, it does not "wear out" and does not need a "warranty" its a cable for cheese sakes, has anyone reading this ever "worn out" a cable?
Get the free cable with your box and do not get scammed by bestbuy and AV "experts" "
Thom wrote on Dec 31, 2007 2:42 PM:
" Yea all cables are to some degree a scam. Like someone said, Monster Cable provides a limitless lifetime warranty. After working at Best Buy and knowing roughly how much cables cost, I got my two HDMI cables for 5.50 (originally $65). It isn't so much a scam as it... well I guess it is a scam, but it is a universal scam. "
Jan S. wrote on Dec 31, 2007 2:22 PM:
" Very good article. I'm an Electronics Enigneer myself. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Still though, there are a lot of people out there who just like to buy expensive stuff only because they're that, expensive, so I'm guessing they'll still fall into the salespeople carefully crafted scams. "
Rick Rottman wrote on Dec 31, 2007 2:20 PM:
" Nice article, but it could really use a left margin. Test is butted up against the side of my screen. Maybe I don't have the right monitor cable... "
zer0-Kill wrote on Dec 31, 2007 2:13 PM:
" The reason why they are scamming you is that the cost for purchase by an employee at say Best Buy is 5% higher than the store purchased the item. Thus a $50 monster cable will only be about $7.50 in most cases, this is why, it is about making money. The cables don't cost a lot, it's just that the store wants to make money. Get over that fact and realize that you live in a world where money talks. "
jjjj wrote on Dec 31, 2007 1:24 PM:
" best price on HDMI i have seen is at monoprice .com
i don't work for them "
Jaume wrote on Dec 31, 2007 1:23 PM:
" This is not correct. Digital signals don't exist in real analog world. In fact you have to transmit a high speed signal composed of '0' and '1' representations from one point (VCR) to another (TV) having the lower binary error rate as possible. If errors increase you start to see defects on screen (squares and image stops). On higher error levels, the transmission is not feasible. "
Barcode wrote on Dec 31, 2007 1:14 PM:
" I totally agree...
That is why I buy my unit from the big box stores, and order my cables or mounting brackets from www.monoprice.com
Never had a problem with any of their inferior quality cables (sales guy quote).
Amazing prices usually 70-80% off what the big box stores charge, and quick delivery.
B "
Bob wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:59 PM:
" I have an RCA rear projection HDTV and it only has DVI. What is DVI the format that lost the war or something? Nothing I own has a DVI port on it.
They sell DVI to HDMI converters but will this improve my already excellent picture using composite cables?
Worst Buy has the DVI to HDMI going for 35 bucks.
Thanks. "
LMAO wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:55 PM:
" Yes, they are a scam.
Guess what: so are "Monster" speaker cables. "
Adam Okhai wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:39 PM:
" We are vulnerable to the same ,often much worse, scams any time we need to buy PARTS for autos, appliances, and all kinds of repairs which , we are told, would be dangerous delaying. "
uh, yeah wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:38 PM:
" and those gold plated contacts on optical cables are good for what? :) "
hdmi_designer wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:26 PM:
" You are completely wrong. Because the digital signal traveling over HDMI cables is high-speed, they are subject to "analog" loss in the cable. Thicker cables have less loss and are usually more expensive. For example, a 3m AWG28 cable (thin & cheap) can perform worse than a 10m AWG24 cable (thicker & expensive). Once you are in the sub-10m range I agree that almost all cables will work, but there certainly is a "better" cable which can justify the cost. "
HDGuy wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:18 PM:
" WRT the 'durability' argument mentioned early in these comments, how exactly do these cables wear out? I think a consumer would have to be moving, bending, stepping on, etc. the cables to 'wear them out'. When under 25 feet, stick with the perfectly fine $7-$8 HDMI cables you can easily find online. 'nuff said. "
colas wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:15 PM:
" Yup, as others I agree.. except for long cables. A medium-priced ($50) 30 ft DVI cable was unusable for me, a high-end one ($100) worked perfectly. "
Gerry wrote on Dec 31, 2007 12:03 PM:
" Actually, a poor cable could cause some 0's to become 1's and vise-versa. This would not be cleaned up by the TV, nor would the picture be especially bad. The picture may just be less than optimal. Maybe you don't need an expensive cable, but you'll need something decent. "
Steve wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:51 AM:
" But what you dont realise is that HDMI is right on the high end of what we're able to achieve with low cost cabling. Version 1.3 is capable of using 10 gigs of bandwidth, which is the fastest speed you'll get out of a copper wire based ethernet network at this time with our current technology. And you wont get those speeds over normal Cat5.
Yes, cat5, cat5e and cat6 are all the same - 8 conducter UTP cable, but each one is capable of a higher bandwidth and you need to pay for that extra data handling capability because they cost more to make. None of them are capable of handling the amount of data HDMI sends, only shielded/screened cat7 is capable of that and only with shielded end connectors. If you want your cable to be able to transmit that amount of data reliably you gotta pay the man.
And no, its not a case of it either will or wont work - these systems are capable of error correction, and even try to guess the values if they dont arrive correctly, but only a reliable data transmission will enable your teevee to faithfully reproduce the original signal.
As has been said, the requirements of the cable depend on the circumstance. You will need better cable if you're running longer lengths, or running near devices which can cause interferance (switching power supplies come to mind), or if you intend on using the full bandwidth. I always think you can save yourself a good bit of money by careful cable placement.
But in conclusion - are expensive cables nothing more than a rip? YES! They've been doing it for years. Read the packaging of those cables if you want a really *bad* lesson on analouge signal transmission! Your moneys better spent on rat traps to stop the cable gremlins coming in the night if you believe half of the pap they print.
But lets really try to understand WHY some cables cost what they do whilst avoiding monster cables who charge you extra for the magic dust their cables carry :D "
dthardcore wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:35 AM:
" If you want Cheap high quality HDMI cable check Monoprice>com they have very nice cables for "
Audiophile wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:33 AM:
" Good article- companies like Monster have made a killing by convincing the average consumer that he/she MUST have the best option, no matter what the details of his/her setup. Truth is, at 6-10ft lengths, cheaper cables do a fine job. You might need a higher quality cable for long run lengths and/or in-wall installations, but for those who aren't doing this, the extra expense is unnecessary. As for longevity, consider that in the time it takes for even a "cheap" cable to wear out, that you may have swapped out your equipment AND your cables multiple times in keeping with changing technology. Unless your cable's exposed to extremes in temperature, sits behind your walls, gets walked on when underneath a carpet, or is constantly handled, longevity isn't a huge concern.
Here's an article comparing HDMI cables on a lab bench:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-battlemodo/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-268788.php "
Philo wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:32 AM:
" For those nitpicking the article, please note that the fundamentals are correct - with a digital signal you will either see a great picture or not. Folks with satellite radio will appreciate how this works - in the days of AM & FM, there was tuning, and static, and bleedover, and losing stereo... with satellite (digital), you get the station, then you don't - it just cuts in and out. Period.
Digital video's pretty much the same. You'll get a picture or you won't. You may in rare cases see artifacting - change channels. If it goes away, it's from the source. If it's on every channel, it's your equipment, and start with the cables.
cable guy nailed it - I've got a $12 HDMI cable on my 72" HDTV and the picture is *gorgeous*. For HomeEntertainmentInstaller, let it go - now you're advocating a *$200* cable? Do the math - if I replace my $12 cable every single year then ten years from now I'm still ahead of the game (and I wont' be replacing my cable every year - my $12 cable is two years old and looking fine...)
And good lord - these days we're not talking about one cable. With HD Satellite, HD-DVD, and game systems, you could be looking at 3 (or more) HDMI cables. $36 or $600... Let me think... "
Rio wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:27 AM:
" How despicable of taking things from How Stuff Works and getting ad revenue from their work. "
Allen wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:22 AM:
" Happened to me! There are stores that sell a cable for a lot less. "
Bubazleeb wrote on Dec 31, 2007 11:14 AM:
" I'm an A/V installer on the weekends and it drives me mad to see BB and CC sell HDMI cables for $50+ when anyone can go over to www.monoprice.com and other such e-tailers to purchase on for 1/10th the price. As mentioned in other comments, longer spans may benefit from a heftier cable using a thicker gauge of wire. If you're looking for something over 15-feet, I'd recommend going with a one of their 22-24 gauge cables. Now go enjoy your beautiful HD set, and spend the money saved on a new Bluray/HDDVD! :) "
JP wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:53 AM:
" Your points are all salient. However, as a technology columnist, it would make your articles more believable if you spelled industry-specific terminology correctly ('blu-ray', not 'blueray'). Just sayin'... "
HomeEntertainmentInstaller wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:40 AM:
" Your article is correct in many respects, but one factor is absent: longevity. The reason some HDMI cables are inexpensive is that they are made of inexpensive materials. Monster, however, which can run over $200 for a single HDMI cable, has only the best cable shielding (yes, that matters), and gold-plated contacts (which does not corrode. Did I mention the lifetime warranty? As long as you own the cable, and if by some chance it goes bad, take it to any Monster retailer and swap it out. So is the money worth it? That's completely up to you. How long do you want to be paying to replace worn-out low-cost cables? "
Montoya wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:30 AM:
" This is common sense among us electrical engineers; there's no sense of fidelity with digital signals. It's either 1 or 0, and you just need a cable that sends a signal that's "good enough" so that the receiver can tell the difference. A $100 cable might be more durable, but it certainly isn't worth 3 times as much as the standard cables they sell for $30-$40. "
John Stiles wrote on Dec 31, 2007 10:20 AM:
" Word. Retail commission suck for those who are in it. But a charlatan working retail is great because there is no integrity scamming a vulnerable consumer into spending on an expensive wire. "
Andrew wrote on Dec 31, 2007 9:57 AM:
" First of all, I agree overall with your post. I don't recommend that people buy an expensive HDMI cable, as the less expensive models will likely work just fine. However, as an electronics expert and one that has studied these sort of signals, I am upset by your lack of proper technical knowledge regarding the signals that are being sent on the cables.
You mention "you aren't sending any oscillating analog waves, nor any power." First of all, at the GHz speeds that HDMI signals go (or at any speed to some extent) there is relatively little difference betwe
