" Steve S- I hope I'm right too, for all of our sakes. It will be hard though for whoever is elected, because the economy will get worse before it gets better. But like I said, no matter who wins we'll be rid of Bush. Although if McCain wins I'll be praying for his health.

I can't argue with Blagojevich being ridiculous. In fact he reminds me of Bush sometimes, out of touch and incompetent. "

" 1st. Amendment: IF he is elected, you had better hope you are right because it's going to 4 years before you or anyone else will be able to do anything to change it. I remember about 6 years ago everyone was saying the same thing about Blago. Not much of an argument how that has turned out. "

" on #5 I meant "row to hoe" "

" Steve S-
1. I'm unaware of any democrat that has at anytime questioned Obama's "patriotism, ethnic and religious backgrounds." Furthermore, only a racist, simple-minded, unpatriotic dimwit would do so.
2. After 8 years of republican rule the US is in real bad shape. The republican President and Congress have foresaken the American worker and their middle class families, and have given tax breaks to corporations that send American jons over-seas. These corporations then exploit slave labor in these countries that: 1.oppress their people (China, Columbia), 2. make poisonous and dangerous products that they then sell back to us (China, malasyia, columbia, mexico), and 3. murder workers when they try to unionize (columbia).
3. In the case of communist China, nearly all of the republicans and half the democrats have helped to hand them the keys to our economic destruction. We no longer make things in America, and McCain, more then any other congressman, has pushed for that in the name of "free trade." McCain is on the record as saying he doesn't know much about the economy.
4. You and people like you voted for Bush twice, and presumably, you did so in part because you wrongfully thought he had the "experience to lead." McCain's economic and trade polciies are substantively the same as Bush's, so in essence, you are urging people to vote for more of the same, and no offense, but it shows incredibly poor judgment on your part.
5. I have no doubt that you are probably a good man, but too many hard working American families have been harmed, and will continue to be harmed by these failed economic and trade policies. Whoever wins will have a tough road to hoe, and the solution is not, and has never been, tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. I will vote for Obama because he, unlike McCain, will put the interests of working American families ahead of the interests of Big corporations and the super rich.
6. Despite almost going to jail over the S&L crisis in the 80's, McCain did not learn his lesson. He has, until last week, consistently advocated for de-regulation as always being the answer. Of course, suddenly now that the de-regulation he supported and his economic advisor Lindsey Graham pushed into law is devestating our economy, he wants to lie about his record and claim otherwise, but the internet has a long memory. Bottom line, he didn't learn his lesson with the S&L crisis, and his judgment cannot, and should not be trusted.
7. McCain has made 76 major policy flip-flops in the last few years and it is clear that he lacks the courage of hic convictions, in short he saying whatever it takes to get him elected,...McSame.
8. That said McCain would be heads and tails better then Bush (that aint saying much), so whoever wins, I know we as americans will be better off. But McCain is 72 and has had skin cancer 4 times. Sarah Palin in a joke, in fact, she is very much like Bush. She isn't very bright or knowledgable about a great many key issues, she makes snap decisions without having the facts, she lies without shame, she has abused her executive power, she does not respect the rule of law, she engages in cover-ups, and would let her belief that we are now in the end times influence her policy decisions in foreign policy, enviromental policy, and social policy. She is dangerous to this country, and frankly makes Dan Quale look like a Rhodes Scholar. America deserves better then to have her a heartbeat away from the presidency. "

" 1st Amendment: I have read most of your blogs containing your facts and theories but I have one question for you. AT THE END OF THE DAY after the campaigning, debating, mudslinging, posturing etc. is all over, do you really want someone with limited governmental domestic and foreign affairs experience, trained and groomed by the Daley machine, whose patriotism, ethnic and religious backgrounds having been called to question by both sides at one time or another, in a position to lead this nation, make decisions for our well being, and ultimately be the one with the red phone (button) at his disposal? Are you absolutely positively without a doubt sure? "

" huh??!??

I didn't know those issues were being discussed in this thread. "

" I note that you are all for testing students for drugs and tobacco.
I would prefer that you concentrate on education and let the students parents worry about their children's choice even though you and I may not like them.
Our education system is overloaded with administrators and other expenses that have nothing to do with teaching students a basic education and how to find the information that they will need to succeed in this world. "

" More proof McCain is anything but a Washington reformer comes to us from the 9/11 issue of The Nation:

"The photograph substantiates reports that in late August, 2006, McCain celebrated his 70th birthday aboard a yacht, the Celine Ashley, rented by A-list con man Raffaello Follieri and his then-movie star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. In the current edition of Vanity Fair, Michael Schnayerson reported that Follieri rented the Celine Ashley for the month of August 2006. Montenegro's leading daily
newspaper, Vijesti, earlier reported that during McCain's visit in 2006 he celebrated with birthday cocktails and sweets aboard the Celine Ashley yacht. In the photograph, taken in Montenegro at the end of August, McCain is shown boarding the yacht ramp towards the smiling Follieri and Hathaway. Just ahead of McCain and shaking hands with Follieri appears to be Rick Davis--McCain's top aide and now co-manager of his campaign, who accompanied him on the trip and advised the government of Montenegro. A few months after McCain's yacht party, Follieri strengthened his ties to McCain's orbit by retaining Rick Davis's well-connected Washington lobbying firm, Davis Manafort, and offering Davis both an investment deal and help in securing the Catholic vote for McCain's presidential bid." "

" ObamaMama- thanks, tag, your it. "

" Isn't it odd that the Alaskan legislature this summer (before Palin's VP pick), in a unanimous vote, decided to start an investigation of Palin's firing of the state's police chief. The committee that is conducting the inquiry has far more republicans on it then democrats, yet the repiglicans are now lying and saying that democrats are just doing it for political gain? Did they just forget that there is a tape of her staff member calling to get get the ex-brother-in-law fired? That's why there is an investigation, because Palin abused her office and is now lying to cover it up.....McSame. "

" 1st Amendment -

If I weren't a married woman...

You just keep setting them straight and I'll just keep LMAO!! "

" Heh, that's a story? Gramm was fired by McCain? Good.

Wanna list all of the Obama advisors that worked at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac?

I'm all for shoring up the trading issues and imposing high tariffs on imports to the point where our domestic products can compete. Of course this will likely never happen because companies like Wal-Mart, who have bankrupted most of their competitors with cheap imports, will never allow it to happen.

I agree on removing the cap from social security. Instead of renegotiating NAFTA, I say get rid of it all together. It was merely a means for corporations to move jobs to cheaper countries. (See 1st, I'm not always the polar opposite of your stance :P) "

" Below is a condensed version of a news story that exposes McCain as anything but a maverick. It exposes him as being in the pocket of big corporate intersts. Enjoy!

As the news broke of the Lehman Brothers meltdown and the rest of the latest financial crisis, John McCain, in a statement released by his campaign, McCain called for greater "transparency and accountability" on Wall Street.
If McCain wants to hold someone accountable for the failure in transparency and accountability that led to the current calamity, he should turn to his good friend and adviser, Phil Gramm.
As reported in June, of 2000, Gramm, then a Republican senator, slipped a 262-page bill into a gargantuan, must-pass spending measure, with the help of financial industry lobbyists, essentially removed newfangled financial products called swaps from any regulation. Credit default swaps are basically insurance policies that cover the losses on investments, and they have been at the heart of the subprime meltdown because they have enabled large financial institutions to turn risky loans into risky securities that could be packaged and sold to other institutions. Barclays Capital analysts have estimated that if a financial institution with $2 trillion in credit-default swap trades were to fail, it might trigger between $36 billion and $47 billion in losses for institutions that traded with the firm. So the Lehman fiasco--caused in part by the use of unregulated swaps--could lead to ruin elsewhere in the economy. Gramm is responsible for the rise of the $62 trillion swaps market. And he was chairman of the McCain campaign and a top economic adviser for McCain--until he dismissed Americans worried about the economy as "whiners." After that comment, McCain dumped Gramm. But was Gramm truly excommunicated from McCain land? Last month, he attended a meeting of McCain's top supporters in Aspen, Colorado. And at a dinner that day, McCain singled out Gramm for praise.
What McCain has not explained is how they plan to be able to reform Wall Street when they are being assisted by 177 lobbyists and the guy who greased the way to the current crisis with a backroom legislative maneuver. "

" Taxing dividends and upper income brackets does not necessarily get passed down. Publicly traded corporations cannot raise prices just because the top executives need to booost their income, they, as corporate fiduciaries have to act in the best interests of all the share holders and the corporation. And it does not always follow that raising prices raises income as most folks are well aware.

There is an argument to be made that taxing corporate profits gets passed down. This is why we need to work for fair trade (targeted tariffs, re-negotiating nafta etc). However, closing loopholes and taxing the top 5% is long overdue. "

" I am particularly fond of the new comparisons. Obama was a community organizer like "Jesus", and Pontius Pilate was a governor. Well, you know what they are implying. The sad thing is, people think this statement helps Obama.

Neither candidate is going to do much to help our standard of life. It's really the law makers who will or will not do that. I feel that more social programs means more taxes, and really, it does. More taxes means less personal wealth. Smaller government means less taxes.

Any tax on the wealthy will always be passed on down to the people who buy things from the rich. I've already made these arguments, so I won't bore you again.

The next president is going to have quite the mess to clean up. 1/2 trillion deficit, lending banks, energy crisis, Iraqi war, etc. etc. And no, not all of these were Bush's fault, but some were.

Will be interesting to see how November goes. "

" Why don't we all talk about Barach Hussien Obama's accomplishments while he was a community agitator, Illinois House member from the corrupt Chicago machine and his 140 days in the Senate. Why don't we talk about all the people at his convention that stood up to talk about him and his past (I do not mean fellow politicians reading from a telepromptor). There were NONE! NONE! He could not bring character witnesses in because they are so far out of the American main stream that they appeal only to the far left wingnut part of the democrat party. Have you heard him talk about issues? Programs? HOW HE WOULD PAY FOR THIS VAST NEW EXPANSION OF THE NANNY STATE? You won't. Americans have historically rejected these massive tax and spend follies of the wacko liberal left. Barach Hussien Obama dare not open his mouth and tell the truth about what he would do to us. That is why he is the "stealth" candidate. His "change" for America will be rejected in November and he will fade away back into the corrupt Chicago machine and radical left. "

" And the first ever SI Stephen Colbert Award goes to.........JSmith!!! Congratulations!! You've earned it. "

" Heh are you in for a big surprise mad. Mccain/Palin aren't going to be doing any of that stuff. If your poor you're going to have to find a way to pull yourself up by your bootstraps or do without. See the best thing you can do is go to college and get educated. You can also invest in the stock market cause business is going to boom under the Republicans. Poor people could make a lot of money in the stock market if they play it right. "

" I have changed my political stance on everything.

First of all, I say raise those capital gains taxes. If you make a profit, I want it redistributed to me, or programs that benefit me, as I am below poverty level.

Tax the heck out of those evil oil companies. How dare they make a profit? I don't care that their profit margin is less, and inflation is on the rise. They better not pass the cost on to me, or else I'll have Barry tax 'em again.

I know we can change to alternative energy in 10 years, even though we have no idea what that will be. The poor will have no problem converting their vehicles to the alternative energy vehicles, as we'll raise taxes on the rich to buy them autos. In preparation, I am going to make sure I am poor enough to qualify for these new vehicles.

I am also going to move into the housing and get me some food stamps. Maybe I'll have some more kids so I can get more food-stamps. The good thing is with kids, I can get free healthcare; the only thing I need is a kid. Maybe I'll adopt, as my love life is lacking. I wonder if they have welfare approved adoption agencies?

Speaking of love life.... it's not fair that ugly rich guys get beautiful woman. Can we levy some sort of beauty tax to give ugly people a fair shake? I, err ummm, "they" need all of the help they can get.

Same thing with obese people. They need to tax the skinny ones.

You can put lipstick on a pig......... oh never mind, ya know what I'm saying. "

" You can back off with that feeling me buiness buddy! I'm 100% conservative and I don't swing that way and once Mccain/Palin get in office nobody else will either. "

" jsmith- ok, i feel you now. You know, I thought about doing something similar a while back, but i though people would mistaken me for 'community organizer.' Keep up the good work. "

" Facetious, heh heh, I'm being 100% true blue all American which is more than I can say for you liberals!! We don't need some smart elitist with a Harvard eduaction running this country. We need someone doesn't already know anything about the economy who will listen to the business people and CEOs. Those are the people who built this country into what it is today. They know what it takes to balance a budget and cut out the red tape which means all the unnecessary regulations. They know how to cut corporate taxes so corporations can make money and have it trickle down to the lower classes who are unwilling to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Trust me Mccain/Palen will do this and more heh heh. "

" Facetious, heh heh, I'm being 100% true blue all American which is more than I can say for you liberals!! We don't need some smart elitist with a Harvard eduaction running this country. We need someone doesn't already know anything about the economy who will listen to the business people and CEOs. Those are the people who built this country into what it is today. They know what it takes to balance a budget and cut out the red tape which means all the unnecessary regulations. They know how to cut corporate taxes so corporations can make money and have it trickle down to the lower classes who are unwilling to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Trust me Mccain/Palen will do this and more heh heh. "

" oh my, oh my, if they would both only address the issues confronting our country today - it isn't as if there isn't plenty to address. But oh no, we must dig into personal stuff that has no bearing on being the leader of our country. Just tell us what you can and can't and will and won't do. "

" jsmith- are you being facetious? I can't tell for sure. "

" jsmith- Are you facetious? I'm not sure. "

" I don't know why you liberals want to be hatin McCain. He's a real war hero and when he's president we'll be able to whip anybody we don't like. As far as that savings and loan thing goes McCain was just trying to help out one of his constituents who got in a little jam. Isn't that what he's suppose to do? When he's president he'll have even more constituents to help. Heh in fact one of the first constituents he'll help will be American oil companies to drill more oil. Drill baby drill!! And don't worry about Sarah she's ready to take over if McCain should reach the end of his term so to speak. You don't need to have a lot of experience or be real smart to run the country. Just look at President Bush; he did all right and McCain/Palin will do just as well. "

" Proof that McCain has joined the ranks of the lying liars, and has abandoned his morals to run a sleazy campaign of lies....from CNN today-

"Former Bush adviser Karl Rove said Sunday that Sen. John McCain had gone "one step too far" in some of his recent ads attacking Sen. Barack Obama.

Rove has leveled similar criticism against Obama.

"McCain has gone in some of his ads -- similarly gone one step too far," he told Fox News, "and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the '100 percent truth' test."

nuff said, vote Obama, the real maverick "

" heh, why would we need to be mad at him? We're already not voting for him, lol.

I, also, don't need to drag Obama through the mud to try to sway any swing votes that there may be. I think the actual public policy that these candidates want to implement should dictate that.

Instead of trying to find everything every candidate did wrong, who they were at the same conventions speaking with, what their preacher says, and all of this garbage that has nothing to do with future policy, why don't we debate what these people want to do with our nation? "

" Obama clearly explained his "you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig" comment on Letterman Sept. 10th. He was referring to McCain's policy as the pig and the lipstick would be Palin if you follow the logic appropriately. I think he would have made the same comment had McCain picked a man for his running mate. People are clearly grasping at straws...looking for something to be mad at Obama about! "

" 1st, you are crossing the line when you bring Jane Fonda into this. Please be careful. She was good in Barbarella, but that was it. "

" Communist organizer- c'mon, did you even watch the video? I mean, I know your getting on in years but watch the video, even Bill O'Reilly said that McCain was being dishonest in his characterization of what Obama said. As for my post to geez, I was just funnin, even Geez knows that, so lighten up. You know once Obama wins in november I'll apply for head of the local politburo and see if we can't re-educate you in the local unitarian church with inspirational speaking tapes from Jane fonda and William Ayers. Afterwards, we'll have a drum circle, talk about our feelings and cry about how unfair it is that some people have more money then other people ;)

(WARNING: The above comments where satire and in no way reflect the opinions of the Democratic Party, Barak Obama, or Ted "Big Poppa" Kennedy. Nothing in the text should be construed as a message intended to characterize Sarah Palin as a pig or other porcine creature and should not be deemed as such. 1st Amendment is solely responsible for this message and its awesomeness) "

" WOW1 1st...the king of reasoned and documented arguments went totally off the deep end with his "politico" and comments to "geez" below...take a deep breath, get the Viagra, Oops I meant, Valium ..get a grip and get some rest. "

" Wow, 1st, you do have a sense of humor. That is awesome dude, cause you are gonna need it after November rolls around. "

" The pig and lipstick comments WERE OBAMA'S FAULT. HE SAID THEM! This shows a lack of temperment for the office. He used poor judgement. He caused this uproar because he thought he could SLIMP this woman and get away with it. Like most on the left he still thinks the main stream media morons will cover for him. He forgets the internet and talk radio (another reason to doubt his judgement). "

" 1st Amendment....sorry old boy but you are seriously wrong if you think Obama had anything (I mean he had NOTHING) to do with the plan to exit Iraq. No one consults or listens to a Senator with 140 days, that is an appeaser and anti-military. Obama clearly benefited from some other, more senior democrat that was "inside" and was briefed on the Commander-In-Chiefs plans. That was over the top and just plan silly. At this point in time I doubt if anyone would listen to him suggest peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on a deli menu. "

" Geez- the politico, aka the center/right website's article posted below, is totally exposing your candidate as bogus, dude. Rather then say what he stands for, he is like, all up in Obama's grill, saying, "hey, why are you looking at my lady dude, she ain't no pig dude." But that's ironic, right? Cuz she's like, totally the queen of pork, dude. "

" That is a expected response from all Obama supporters. The FACT is that the surge worked and it is time to start bringing our troops home slowly. Obama was preaching his withdrawal from the beginning. Bush has backed off withdrawing troops during the remainder of his presidency. Got no egg on my face dude. "

" geez- I hate to be the one to tell you that you have egg on your face but the Bush administration adopted Obama's plan for a phased withdrawal. And mcCain got on board. You can parse words anyway you like, and they certainly won't admit it, but its the same plan. You can argue that the plan is wrong, but arguing that McCain stands for something different is no longer consistent with his own rhetoric. "

" madblogger- I moderate my approach to the person I am engaging. I know that McCain is not Bush, but when McCain's economic policies match up very closely with Bush's then it is not unfair to make comparison. In fact, this scares McCain, which is why politico ran the following story 2 days ago- "When John McCain’s campaign manager said last week that this presidential election “is not about issues,” it wasn’t a Freudian slip. It was an unvarnished preview of McCain’s new campaign plan." I can fairly conclude that McCain knows that many people won't vote for him if all he offers on the economic front is more of the same. You (madblogger) and I, can have a grown up, objective discussion, where nuance and shades of grey are not ridiculed. However, when I'm engaging others who are knowingly distorting the truth, then as I said, I cannot in good conscience let it go. To do so would be akin to unilateral disarmament.

Politico continues- " There is also significant danger for a campaign that emphasizes the personal over policy: The allure of even the most compelling — or unorthodox — life story can fade, begging the question: Where’s the beef? For McCain, the answer comes largely in policy positions that mirror those of an unpopular president, and for Palin, her brief time as a public figure prompts many more questions than answers. But the McCain campaign is betting its best chance to win is by aiming for the gut, not the heads, of voters.This should not come as a huge shock. For one thing, the political climate pretty much demands it.
The Republican brand is in the tank. And despite all his talk about independent-mindedness, McCain actually differs very little from President Bush on the serious issues of the day: Iraq, taxes, trade and health care." "

" Ugggh.... McCain is not Bush.... I know what you're going to say..... McCain said he voted with Bush 90% of the time. I'm sure you can find media bytes for each candidate that makes them look bad.

Well, our economy isn't in it's current state just because of Bush. Let's not forget congress. Let us not forget that congress went along for the ride. Again, I already know what you're going to say, "Bush Lied to them." Did Bush also force Saddam to prohibit searches in certain areas? Maybe, just maybe, there was misinformation being told by agents in Iraq.

Again, I understand, you want to paint McCain as "Bush", as it will garner support for your candidate, but let's face it, McCain is not Bush. To say that McCain will be just like Bush, is no different than me saying Obama will be just like Carter.

Tell me what Obama stands for, and why you support that.

Same with OC, what does McCain stand for that you support?

Are you guys incapable of just listing the positives you feel you candidate possesses, and why you support them? "

" I see you discussing the faults of Gov. Palin more that the issues, 1st.

The issues that concern me are the tax increases that we will see if Obama is elected. The total anti gun stance that Obama has taken, probably thanks to his relationship with Mayor Daley and our great Gov. The stance Obama has on removing our troops on a timetable rather after a victory. I have mentioned these time and time again. "

" Geez- why so scared to talk about the issues? Answer- then the GOP loses, because no one trusts them on the issues, after 8 years of incompetent failure. "

" Geez- again you are inaccurate on obama and Georgia-but don't take my word for it, here's the NYT's-

"When Russian troops rolled into South Ossetia on Friday, Senator John McCain’s response was immediate and tough.

Russia had crossed “an internationally recognized border into the sovereign territory of Georgia” and should “unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces,” said Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, in a statement delivered at an airport.

Senator Barack Obama, his Democratic rival, trod more carefully, a characteristic of his approach to foreign affairs. In an initial statement released by his campaign, he did not directly blame Russia and instead offered a more measured response, which largely echoed the official comments of the European Union, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and President Bush.

“Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war,” Mr. Obama said in the statement, which focused on negotiations and concluded that “all sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia.”

Mr. Obama did harden his rhetoric later on Friday, shortly before getting on a plane for a vacation in Hawaii. His initial statement, an adviser said, was released before there were confirmed reports of the Russian invasion. In his later statement, Mr. Obama said, “What is clear is that Russia has invaded Georgia’s sovereign — has encroached on Georgia’s sovereignty, and it is very important for us to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.” "

" Geez- 1. McCain has made similar gaffes Re: sunnis vs shia, and other mis-steps, I'll provide a list later, 2. I knew you were talking about the muslim thing, and as I said, it is clear to me now that you didn't see the video. Stephanopolous tried to correct him but he waived him off, he meant to say exactly what he said, as in McCain wasn't talking about Obama's muslim religion, in that context when they were discussion morons who are spreading that lie his use of 'my muslim faith' is understood to be the lie that they are discussing, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt now, I said before that anyone who claimed that AFTER seeing the video is either 1. stupid, or 2. dishonest, ...I'm assuming you haven't seen the video, frankly it is no different then the lying smear about the lipstick and the pig. If you saw the video, which I'm assuming you didn't see, again, it is clear he was talking about McCain's policies, my God, even Bill O'Reilly understood that what mCCain was saying was a lie, I'll say it again, Geez, do your own research, it makes you look less foolish when you do. "

" Oh, yea, I totally forgot about the Russia invading Georgia fiasco. It took him three days and changing his mind 3 times before he took a stance. The same stance that McCain took the instant he spoke. Lets turn it over to the UN. Good one Barack. Russia has veto power, a lot of good that would do. Where were his speech writers when he needed them the most. "

" Highly trained Harvard law school grad. Big deal. How do you explain the slip that he referred to his muslim religion, the humms and haws before he refused to answer the question put to him about when life begins. "above my paygrade" please, the man can't think on his feet. He humm and hawwed his way through that whole lipstick on a pig and the fish wrapped in paper quote. The debates will finish this guy off. "

" Geez- your on the wrong track with this whole teleprompter thing: 1. Obama is a highly trained Harvard Law grad, he can speak extemporaneously as well as anyone in recent memory, 2. Despite my grudging respect for McCain's service to the country, a good speaker he ain't. Frankly, the point doesn't have much relevance as to whether someone is qualified to lead, just look at reagan, great speaker, but he raided the social security lock box, and set a precedent that every president has followed since, to this country's detriment. But he was a great communicator. "

" Let us not forget that if Obama had not been given a chance to speak at the 04 Democrat convention, he would not be here now. It was that tele-prompted speach, that made all the Dems swoon and instantly fall in love with this guy. They knew they had their candidate 4 years ago, with even less experience than he does today. "

" madblogger- I agree but, but see John Kerry, he tried to take the high road and it got him nowhere. In response to Communist organizer I tried making up lies about McCain and it made me feel dirty. But, if the dems don't fight back this time with everything they got, they lose again. So, I'm torn.

Communist organizer- Tell you what, if you think that the 2004 stolen election is a conspiracy theory, google "uscountvotes" read the pdf report that is put out by some of the leading mathematic and statistics professors in the country, then tell me what is not accurate.

While your at it, your assignment is to mull these quotes over ... “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”- Samuel Adams

“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." -Thomas Jefferson "

" The 2004 Ohio voting machine Roswell theory is in the running for the 2008 Tin Foil Hat award! "

" st Amendment...sad...just keep on throwing stuff against the wall...it's all lies. but, keep on keeping on. One fact is not debateable: the main stream moron press has not done it's due diligence regarding Obama. They swoon and fall at his feet. When, if, they do this vetting and we see the results then we can have a discussion on his pros and cons ...right now we know nothing about him except his book (and is it fiction or non-fiction?) Who knows? Hillary is looking better and better every day. "

" I have heard this cell phone theory before and believe that there are many McCain supporters that have given up their land line for a cell phone too. Either way, the "Democratic Party’s most experienced operatives" are worried. They must not know the secret cell phone theory. "

" What exactly is Obama going to do? I mean, what do you know that he for sure is going to do as president?

What exactly is McCain going to do for sure as president?

Is Obama going to raise taxes?
Is McCain?

Is Obama going to institute more social programs? Will they be extremely expensive?
What about McCain?

What's our exit strategy with Iraq? Do each of the candidates have plans to secure cheaper Iraqi oil?

What are the energy policy proposals? If we're talking alternative energy, how many years will it take? What do we do until then?

Give me facts. I tire of this smearing from both sides. Yes, both sides. I have no doubt Palin's a patriot, nor do I doubt Obama's patriotism. There really has never been any question about McCain and Biden concerning patriotism.

I want to know 100% what these candidates plan to do in the next 4 years, and the time frame that it will happen.

This is what we should be debating people, not this mud slinging. "

" Geez- all due respect, your wrong on several fronts: 1. polling doesn't hit cell phones which are the only phone for a major chunk of obama's supporter's, the polling isn't as close as you think, 2. I've never cried about you stealing elections, i have simply stated undeniable facts that are backed up by demonstrable proof that the 2004 election was stolen by gop operatives in Ohio and other areas working with electronic voting companies that are on the record as being ardently pro-Bush, neither you nor anyone else in here has explained the proof away, 3. as for Obama, he is a far better speaker, extemporaneously or otherwise, then McCain is. You say he has foot in mouth disease but that is a lie my friend, i've seen the videos, and the only way you could think that is if you didn't see them. He meant what he said in each one, and the context of the videos make that clear, you need to rely less on faux News and do your own fact finding.
4. i respect your right to vote the way you want but you aren't the only person on here, until the election i will do what i can to sway independents for Obama, and fight the smears from McCain that expose him as anything but a maverick.

As a side note, on this day I want to say that despite our political differences we are all Americans and I hope in the coming years we can all reach common ground and work together to solve our problems. "

" Found this today and thought it would make interesting reading.

In the Politico,

"Polls showing John McCain tied or even ahead of Barack Obama are stirring angst and second-guessing among some of the Democratic Party’s most experienced operatives, who worry that Obama squandered opportunities over the summer and may still be underestimating his challenges this fall."

I guess more Palin bashing is on the way. "

" Let's face it 1st, I am voting for McCain-Palin, and you are voting for Obama-Biden. All the "FACTS" you dig up and post won't change my, or any other persons mind. Whatever is said to you about your guy isn't going to change your mind. In the end, you will be crying that we stole the election again, only because Obama will blow whatever remaining chance he has at getting elected when the debates are done. He suffers from foot in mouth disease and you can't deny that. Without a tele-prompter, he is toast. And now, Biden is saying that Hillary may have been a better VP candidate than he is. Talk about party unity. "

" Wow!! The "maverick's" latest lie is to say Obama has sponsored legislation that requires sex education for 5 year olds, when in fact, the legislation said if a public school is teaching sex ed to kids of any age, they, must educate them about: 1. telling their parents or teacher if a grown up touches them innapropriately, and 2. educating them about VD. A few days ago, McCain refused to define "honor" in an interveiw and now it is apparent why,....he has none. "

" CO/Billofrights- I have done the research, and there is a great deal of legitimate facts that raise serious questions about Palin. in fairness, to you, I have seen some people post on here stuff that is not 100% accurate, but then to be fair you say Obama is a secret muslim. Frankly the McCain campaign is as dirty as I've ever seen, even Bill o'Reilly said they were full of it on the lipstick pig, so the GOP is the worst when it comes to slime and dirty politics.

When did Obaam ever make disparaging comments about our troops?

As for Palin and the pregnancy, her official story is what gave rise to the rumor of her covering for her daughter. If you have kids, you know that after 2 or 3 they come out pretty quick once the water breaks yet after Palin's water broke she: 1. gave a speech, 2. made a 12 hour flight back to Alaska (if you include changing palnes), and 3. bypassed state of the art medical centers to have her baby in Wasilla. That judgment is questionable for a 44yr old. That is the extent of the dem's questionable stuff.

Here are REAL facts about her:
1. FACT- Palin did address the group, gave them her verbal praise with the full knowledge of what they advocate as self described "America haters"...i've heard the recordings.

2. FACT- Palin is shown in pictures holding up a T-shirt that reads something to the effect of "i supported the bridge to nowhere and all i got was this t-shirt, she's on record in the Anchorage paper as supporting it, and only changed when Congress removed the specification from the 230 million that it be used for the bridge.

3. FACT- she is now lying to the American public about her stance...McSame

4. FACT- As the queen of pork she hired an Abromhoff connected lobbyist to get her town 27 million in pork, good for her town, bad for the deficit. Now she pretends to be anti-pork, oh well, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

5. FACT- she did discuss the banning of books with the librarian, and that my friend, is enough, this is America where free speech and free though are protected, this is not the United States of Pentacostal theocracy, they banned books in hitler's germany, remember?

6. FACT- she claimed a per diem intended for travel for over 300 days when she stayed at her house in Alaska.

7. FACT- she unethically, and illegally, had her lackeys try and abuse her offcial power to have her ex-brother in law fired, that would make Blagojevich proud! "

" Hi 1st...good to see ya. Just do me a favor...go to factcheck and check out the lies said about this woman. I know you love to do your "homework". Just get it right this time. Hey, you might even be big enough to say you were "wrong" once in a while. I'm open to that. One point: Those on the left, and their media partners, went immediately to lies and slime. Immediately! No measured thoughtful analyis. Just destroy, tear down and try to remove any opposition. From what source are these tactics always learned? I had a problem with the Old Coot John Sidney McCain. I did not want to vote for him. Sarah Palin changed that. Learning more details of his time in captivity really impacted me since I served in Viet Nam as well. When one compares the lives of the two men and looks for substance, evidence of life long patriotism, love of country warts and all, his decision to cast his lot on the side of the culture of life instead of the culture of death (infanticide being one example), etc. I can now vote without a clothespin on my nose. Sadly, Ameicans just do not have sufficient information on Barach Hussien Obama to understand what he would do in a crisis, if he would govern for all the people or simply from his own narrow limited experience. Does he love and respect military men and women or does he, as so many on the left, regard them as losers that can't do anything else in life. This position offends me since my father fought and was wounded in Europe and I have many friends and relatives that serve America in the military. Since I know them personally I'm offended by these comments intended to demean and demoralize those on the front lines. There is so much we do not know about Obama since the main stream media morons are cheerleading for him instead of vetting him for us. If the main stream moron media had spend 1/2 the time they did attacking a 17 year old girl that had made a terrible mistake on doing their due diligence on BHO we would all have more information about him. At his convention we learned nothing more than that "book" he wrote. There was not a string of people from his entire life to verify and vouch for him and to explain his accomplishments. They simply piled on platitudes and spoke of smoke and mirrors (hope and change). I was reminded, while I watched the DNC convention, of the shell game one sees at the St. Louis Rams game on Sundays. "

" I find it funny that the Southern chose to include 3 anti-right letters to the editor. That's fine, though, as if it's not FOX, or talk-radio, you're sure to hear one side and not the other (not saying talk radio gives equal time, but since Alan Colmes left the air, there really hasn't been any entertaining left wing perspectives, and let's face it, talk radio is about entertainment).

Ok, enough of the whining about equal time. First of all, I could care less that Obama said "Lipstick on a pig", he's used the term before, as has McCain. I don't think it's a sexist statement, but rather a statement to state disguising something as something else doesn't mean it isn't what it really is. Heh, I'm reminded of the story of the Hippo (From "Along Came Polly"). The Hippo painted stripes on itself to look like a zebra but it zis still a Hippo. I digress.

The real issues are, how are we going to solve the problems at hand?

Most, now know that the Iraq war was a mistake, costly, both in human lives and dollars. In true Libertarian fashion, I think our involvement in foreign wars is a bad idea. Every dollar we spend over there is a dollar not spent here. Let's face it, the war has cost every man, woman, and child $1300. In terms of actual tax-payers, I would venture to guess that the figure to the tax-payers would be at least 3 times that much. Or if you wish, 10 billion dollars for each state (2 billion per year). That's if you only count the actual dollars spent in Iraq, and not the amount for the military and other costs of the war.

We all believed in the search for WMD's, after all, 9/11 was fresh in our minds and we were undergoing Anthrax attacks by mail. Saddam made a critical mistake by not allowing inspectors to search freely, posturing before the rest of the middle-east. Heh, being the joker that I was, I sent an email out to friends stating that the email they received contained a white powdery substance.... after seeing a few jokesters getting busted, I quickly recanted my email. While it was funny, because emails are sent out electronically, the mood of the country at that time meant I could have suffered severe reprecussions.

I digress again.... sorry. Anyhow, we wanted revenge for 9/11, and we were so quick to support military retribution. Afghanistan was proving to be futile at best, a lesson we should have learned from the former Soviet Union. Turns out we had Iraq as a "whipping boy" (no racial undertones intended), and it proved to serve as an outlet for our anger, especially by the ease we swept through Iraq.

The problem we ran into, was the resisting factions. It should have been expected.... after all, if some country swept through the U.S. and tried to instill their way of life, we, as nationals would have resisted. Not to mention the tensions between the different Muslim parties. As time went on, and we incurred more casualties, public favor waned.

There, we have Iraq in a nutshell. Now the question has to be, "Have all we fought and died for, for naught?" Should we lick our wounds and allow them to go whichever way they choose? We're also talking about the 3rd largest oil producing nation, here. Do we wait it out and become a preferred oil partner like we did with Kuwait?

Those are some hard questions. Especially when we are at the mercy of OPEC, who by the way, wish to reduce production because of the falling oil prices. Up until now, oil prices have been primarily been based on the US dollar, which is making a comeback (thus lowering prices). However, some countries are switching to the Euro. What's that mean for you and me? Simply put, oil prices will be based on the value of the Euro, not the dollar. Believe it or not, that is a very important issue.

Well, that's the most important foreign policy issue. Both candidates promise troop withdrawals within 18 months. The question we should be asking is, what will our trade be with Iraq when we start pulling out? If we can procure cheap oil out of the whole war, then we at least pulled something out of this whole debacle. It wasn't worth the cost, by any means.... Heh, I have to laugh when I'm called a "Dittohead". Just because I have conservative beliefs in fiscal policy doesn't make me a Republican.

The next issue, very near and dear, is our freedoms. The Homeland Security Act, in my mind, imposes on a lot of our freedoms. I understand the need, but not so much on a person who was born in the U.S. and has never left. I'm all for securing our borders, and I truly wish for harsher punishments on those who "sneak in" to our country. I think we've pretty much fixed the security issues with our airlines, maybe even too much. I also don't think our tax dollars should go towards any illegal immigrants; no healthcare, no food help, and definitely no driver's licenses.

The most important issue at hand has to be our energy crisis. Who's going to set us on the right path? Let's face it, even with ANWR, off-shore drilling, and the Bakken oil shelf, we are looking at maybe 20 years of oil. It will probably take around 15 years to switch from oil to some alternative. That alternative cannot be reliant upon non-renewable resources. I think battery power with recharging stations is out of the question.... todays batteries are Lithium-Ion, and I have a hard time believing that the resources for that are in great supply. That and disposal of depleted batteries. Solar.... nope, too costly and too energy inneficient. Propane/Natural Gas? Nope, non-renewable. Bio Fuels? Well, you have to give up human consumption crop-land for that, however, the existing infrastructure would support it. It's the most cost-effective as far as infrastructure, and could possibly be implemented under 10 years. Hydrogen? Well, the catalyst to electricity method would again require the catalyst to be in abundant supply. The Hydrogen combustion engine, would require extreme amounts of electricity for the electrolysis involved (This actually pertains to both Hydrogen methods)(The other problem I have with Hydrogen is the emission of water-vapor which could increase cloud cover). The bottom line is, we have to choose soon which method we want to go.

After the energy crisis issue, we have to look at domestic policies. I really have a hard time accepting that government can better run the health-care business with nationalized health-care. I've already witnessed abuses to the medical card. People going in for the common cold, or other such ailments in which the doctor could only prescribe more fluids and more rest.

Taxation on the "rich". Heh, to me, anybody making over 80K a year is rich to me. Where do we draw the line, and how much do we take? How likely are the "rich" to hide their assetts? Taxation on corporations is always passed on to the people who buy their products, so any tax on corporations is an indirect tax on the people.

The bottom line people, is to research what really matters, what your prospective candidate pledges to do, and accept about 20% of their promises.

Truth be known, McCain or Obama, probably aren't going to fix what's wrong. They just want to get elected. It's up to us to force their hands. I urge you with the utmost sincerity to research what you see the problems being, see what your candidate will do, and make your choice. Quit being Left or Right, and start being a part of the solution. "

" So anyway, I'm a little steemed lately cause this "community organizer" is talking all this crazy talk about secret muslims and pigs with lipstick, then I read where he says the Dems are lying about Palin, and i says to meself, i says, "self, I know that guy came in here slinging slime from the get go, i'm gonna find his 1st post to confirm that, then expose his hogwash." And lo and behold, i learn that he is really BillofRights. So as i said over there:

Dear C.O/ Billofrights:
First off, you may as well disregard what I wrote below because I didn't realize you were infact "billofrights". (I had to re-register the "1st amendment handle also, so it wasn't just you) I came into that strand late and missed the part where you said that your handle had changed.

The reason that is important is because I know from experience that you absolutley refuse to find any common ground with me whatsoever, and lack objectivity in any real sense of the word. But you've worked hard in your life and I respect that, you're an American and your old and stubborn, heck, you remind me of my grandfather.

Had I known it was you billofrights, i wouldn't have been so stringent, or taken as much offense at your crazy talk. I know that you know that you're full of it on Obama, you may not want him to win (which is why you spout the excrement), but you know that all this muslim talk is crazy. No hard feelings BillofRights, I look forward to discussing politics with you after Obama is elected.

Your Friend in support of gay and transgendered communist civil unions,

1st Amendment ;) "

" Michael D. Asa

I found it amusing that while speculating to what country the "Country First" convention goers were referring to Mr. Asa conveniently decided to ignore the 800 lb gorilla in the room.

Perhaps they were referring to our unofficial 51-st state - a country that "wags the dog", dictates our disastrous foreign policy, and has the most powerful lobby in USA? "

" yay, another politically charged thread. LOL!

I would say McCain wasn't aware of the S&L scandal. In the same breath, I have a hard time believing Obama feels the same way Ayers did. What Ayers and Rezko did, is on them.

Look, I once hung around people who made it to death row. That doesn't make me a murderer like them. It just means, I didn't know how bad some of these people would end up being.

Can't we judge the candidates on their merits and beliefs without trying to drag them through the mud? After all, it's these beliefs that we are supporting or opposing.

Seriously, I don't think McCain's going to squander money away from banks, no more than I think Obama shares Ayers beliefs. I think it's a misnomer to judge people by the company they once kept. C'mon, now.... what if one of them was Jeffrey Dahlmer's roommate in college or something? Does that make them a cannibalistic serial killer.

Let's debate real points people. "

" The man-child and his supports have their p-ties in a knot and are turning to their natural inclination and that is to lie, smear, slim, attack and in general, whine. "

" There is just a lot of nonsense on her about Palin...nearly all of it is lies and is intended to smear her. You can fact check this slime at factcheck.org and look at elections-2008 under sliming-palin. "

" Basically Old Joe Lieberman looked at the two candidates for President and blinked...he just could not put the safety of his country in the hands of BHO. That was the real message he had at the convention when he turned to the TV camera's at the end of his speech. "

" An article from US News and World Report says.

"Ayers was one of the original grantees of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform organization in the 1990s, and was cochairman of the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, one the two operational arms of the CAC. Obama, then not yet a state senator, became chairman of the CAC in 1995. Later in that year, the first organizing meeting for Obama's state Senate campaign was held in Ayers's apartment. Ayers later wrote a memoir, and an article about him appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001. "I don't regret setting bombs," Ayers is quoted as saying. "I feel we didn't do enough."

Sure, the bombings were a lot earlier in Ayers career, but this guy is definitely someone that should be avoided, don't ya think? He is the one who got Obama into politics in the first place.

Spin it anyway you want, the point is, it isn't getting brought out in the media at all. "

" Geez/Caspar- there ain't nothing there my friends. The Rezco stuff ain't going nowhere because there was no quid pro quo. the couple that sold the house said they did not lower the price and the facts support that. Likewise, the Ayers stuff is silly. What Ayers did happened when Obama was 8. Because Obama was on the same board with him, along with lots of other people means nothing. What McCain did and tried to do in the S&L scandal has been documented and is demonstrably worse. For Obama's sitting on the same board/organization as Ayers to be on the same level as what Palin did with the Alaskan Independence group, obama would have had to done it when he was 8. In other words, Obama didn't associate with Ayers when he was running around acting crazy, whereas Palin gave her supportive speech to the America hating AI group, what a few years ago? Furthermore, the fact that the McCain campaign is now, at this very moment lying and making things up at of whole cloth aboout Obama is proof of who has the moral high ground. McCain has apparently hired the unholy Karl Rove to mount lie after lie against obama which is sad considering McCain himself was victim to it in 2000. Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t? "

" I find that Obama's relati